Webinar hosted by Business Broker Press
Ron: So, anyway, that’s our industry update for today. I’m going to stop sharing and I’m going to introduce our presenter today. I’m going to let Patrick introduce himself. But Patrick Findaro is part of Vetted Biz, and he’s going to be doing the topic today of “What’s Hot, What’s Not: 2020 Small Businesses and Industries.” Patrick, I’ll let you just, because I’m not sure if the industry knows about your company and who you are, just a brief introduction, and then we’ll let you do your presentation for today. Thanks for joining us.
Patrick: Oh, Ron and George, thanks so much for having me on. My name is Patrick Findaro, again, based here in Miami Beach, Florida. The co-founder of two businesses that I’m actively involved in. The first is Vetted Biz where we have a team of analysts that reviews information including SBA loan data on franchises, existing businesses, and all different types of analytics that power the buy-in process for business owners and prospective franchisees, as well as vetting prospective business buyers for business brokers and franchisors. I also co-own Visa Businesses owned and operated by separate entities or investors through contracts with the parent company… which is an advisory business where over the last five years we’ve helped over 300 foreign nationals immigrate to the U.S. through investing in a franchise.
So, today, I’ll be focusing the presentation on some of our findings from Vetted Biz, and then I might use some examples of real-case studies that we’ve had from our clients at Visa Franchise that have come from over 50 different countries. So, today, you know, I don’t want to lecture a bunch of business brokers on who prospective business buyers are. You know much more than me. I can provide, kind of, a little context, just a frame to the discussion. Investing during COVID-19, there are excellent options. And I want to go through some of the options that we’ve seen business buyers exploring. And then, business recovery is really going to vary by industry. So I’ll deep dive basically, the recovery trajectory, and mapping out different businesses accordingly.
So, first, who are the business buyers in 2020? You all know this much more than me, you have the financial buyers buying principally for current and future cash flows. These guys are looking for deals. They might not be the best buyers depending on the type of businesses you’re selling at the time. Strategic buyers and part of entrepreneur organization, they’re an accelerator program. And I’ve spoken to many different people who have had very successful exits. And, usually, the greatest multiples on the business are from very large U.S. corporations or foreign companies entering the U.S. market where the valuation is significantly higher.
And then at Visa Franchise and Vetted Biz, which we’ve seen, over the past couple of years, some large franchisors groups, especially in the service-space sector, have their own M&A teams where they’re analyzing portfolios of property management contracts, landscaping contracts, commercial cleaning contracts, and different service-based businesses that could potentially tie into their franchise system, and then they present these opportunities to their franchisees. So that’s a different type of strategic buyer that I just wanted to bring up today, that there are many franchisors, and to an extent, franchisees that might want to buy an existing business anywhere from $100k to $1 million-plus that can plug-in and, they can purchase the existing business and rebrand it as a franchise. It’s very common in the service sector especially with real estate property management and commercial cleaning.
And then you have here, there’s different names, individual buyers, lifestyle buyers. But they often prioritize their quality of life, may be a retired corporate executive. Right now, I was telling George right before we started, we still have a lot of foreign nationals investing anywhere from $100,000 to $500,000-plus, looking, principally, to get their U.S. visa, and enter the U.S. market, and their kids can go to school and benefit from all of the educational opportunities here. So, per industry and per investment amount, it’s really going to vary in terms of what buyer to focus on for your clients.
All right. So there are excellent opportunities across different industries. A lot of the buyers right now are really looking at understanding the profitability. Looking at, not just, you know, Q1 and then last year’s financials, but looking year-to-date and getting access to the accounting statement and point of sale software. Number two, recurring revenue. So this could be a business like I’ve mentioned, commercial cleaning, where you have the same client every month who is paying your bills, and you can rely on having that same client. Once barbershops continue to pick up, especially depending on what state, it’s a similar thing where you have the same client come every four weeks, every six weeks.
A high-margin business could be something like ice cream where the cost of goods sold are relatively little in terms of the amount they’re getting back. And also using the barbershop example where you have an independent barbershop, the owner keeps 50% and the barber keeps 50% with relatively low fixed cost. Looking at who the management team is, is the management team willing to stay on for a bit to train the new buyer? Industry, and brand, and growth, this is really important. I’ll go into a Southern history of the food segment that’s really growing later on. And then, strong liquidity. Again, tying back to the financials.
So there’s compelling business opportunities, really, across different industries, fast food, especially in the takeout and delivery area, real estate, property management businesses, healthcare, especially home care, cleaning, I mentioned commercial cleaning a few times already. Pet care, adoption rates skyrocketed for pet care during COVID-19. So as you might see some fragmentation in terms of, like, the pet hotels, having less revenue there, but in terms of grooming and especially, you know, if people are both working from home and want a little time, will have their pet away from home, even the daycare as well.
Business services. I spoke this morning with an insurance franchisor who has over 150 units across the U.S., they’re doing quite well. People aren’t driving as much but they’re keeping their automotive insurance, and they keep renewing those contracts as well as other different insurance products that they provide. And then, tax services. Everyone has questions in terms of, you know, when do you have to pay your personal tax, is it worth doing the payroll, tie it into PPP? The accounting services are really staying busy and we foresee great opportunities in that segment.
And then, beauty. Barbershops are starting to really bounce back. Hairdressers, especially depending on what state and what counties in terms of the different phases of the reopening of the economy. And then, education is, kind of, split. You know, if you have little kids, it’s been a tough few months and you probably really admire the work that, yeah, their teachers are doing and have done over the years in terms of summer camps, school reinforcement, anything related to science and technology, supplemental education is doing quite well. There’s great all in opportunities that buyers are actively evaluating.
I’m going to go quickly through a ghost kitchen, and it’s also called a dark kitchen. It’s something that is being evaluated, as of last year, by 80% of food-service operators, are looking into running a second location, third location, or even moving their restaurant to just do takeout and delivery. And, obviously, not all types of food are as easy to, and do as well, delivering them. But this is a hot industry that everyone should be mindful of that is going to grow. And you have the founder of Uber who left Uber and founded a company just focused on opening and developing ghost kitchens.
So they’re open across major metropolitan areas. Some of the benefits are low overhead costs, reduced rent. Where a restaurant investment might be $400,000 to $1 million-plus, you could open up a ghost kitchen business as low as $100,000, $200,000. So thinking about your clients that might be looking to sell the business this year or more next year. What existing businesses can really supply product services to these ghost kitchens? What restaurants can relocate or open up units in ghost kitchens? How can existing businesses leverage this concept for new buyers? Can you pin a vision for a strategic buyer where you already have an MOU in place with a ghost kitchen and you’re looking to expand there and paint the vision for that strategic buyer?
We see in the franchise space a lot, where you might have a multiunit developer where they’ve already opened up five locations, and they’re in the process of opening up four more that year, but the next year there’s a forecast to open up more. And when the strategic buyer goes in to buy that company, they’re going to assign a higher evaluation based on the future vision. That is partly painted by the business broker together with that entrepreneur. And then, also, potentially sublet part of your large kitchen for takeout and delivery on the option, something to think about.
So I want to go through some of the recoveries that we’re already seeing and that experts are forecasting. And the reality is, we don’t know what the future has in store. We can look at some past indicators and we do that with some of the SBA loan details that we see. Most of the information on SBA loans that I have in this presentation is for franchises. Although our analysts have studied, quite extensively, existing businesses where there’s 10 times as many loans issued to non-franchise businesses, and the failure rate, as an aggregate, is largely the same between franchises and existing businesses. Over the last 10 years, non-franchise brands have had a lower default rate than franchises, in fact. Perhaps in a future webinar, we can share more information, where we come out with articles going through the SBA loan information especially in the non-franchise space. But, yeah, again, before looking forward, you’ve got to consider lessons from the 2008/2009 economic crisis. And, you know, it’s a different type of crisis and different industries will be affected, but some industries will be affected similarly to what happened in 2008 and… Sorry, that happened in 2009.
Defaults in 2008 and 2009, was like double the average of a given two-year period over the last 30 years. There were some industries that were hit harder than others, and also some sub-industries. When you look at, for example, frozen desserts, ice creams, they had a very high default rate during 2008, 2009, where, we’ll go through in the presentation today. But in 2020/21, I imagine that could be more on the retail-product side and big-box gyms.
So, some different business scenarios where we’re already seeing this and our analysts talk to many franchisors, probably 30 franchisors on a weekly basis. So we’re getting an insight from the franchisors that have systems of anywhere from 5 locations to 1000-plus locations. So they’re tapped into all these individual operators, and then their numbers, their point of sale software. But some industries that are exhibiting more of a sharp recovery, you could say, and are on track to recovering a lot of their pre-COVID losses, cleaning and maintenance businesses, education programs, business services, I mentioned like accounting, insurance, healthcare services, and then as well as manufacturing, depending on what product they’re manufacturing, and so on.
An interesting stat, approximately 67% of all cleaning maintenance franchises have paid their SBA loan back in full. This doesn’t mean that 32% defaulted. There are some that, for different reasons, that SBA won’t disclose the loan status. So what we like to look at, at Vetted Biz is the Referring to the SBA 7(a) Loan Program, how many franchises in a particular industry paid their SBA loans in full including interest relative to all of the franchises in that industry. Note that many franchises are exempt from sharing their loan statuses as part of the nondisclosure exemption…. over the charged-off rate. So using the data that we have, looking at the loans that the borrower has paid back, the entire amount and looking at the loans where the lender has essentially charged it off, and written off the loan, and they don’t expect to receive payments. Whether that’s a technical default or not, they basically have written off the loan.
And then a U-curve. Food and beverages, you know, grouping all these together, and food and beverage has a lot of different segments, but especially the ones that have pivoted to takeout and delivery earlier on and have reallocated marketing to takeout and delivery have done well. Some apps are reporting over 100% volume growth under the delivery apps. So you can imagine, if your business was 20% delivery, and now you’re really trying to have it half and half, there’s significant top-line revenue to pick up there. As well as exhibiting more of a U-curve, health and beauty, children programs, and real estate.
I would have thought property management on the vacation-rental side would have been hit a lot harder, but talking to a few different franchisors in the arena, a lot of New Yorkers have been coming down to Florida. And instead of the international tourists spending, you know, a week, two weeks in Disney, you have New Yorkers spending two months, three months paying full price. And you’re seeing the same thing with Californians leaving San Francisco and a lot of different metropolitan areas where, depending on the location, some of these real estate property-management businesses especially in the vacation rental space haven’t been hit as hard. And then, on the long-term rentals, time will tell in terms of what initiatives the government does this month in terms of unemployment benefits, etc. But, largely, the residential real estate property managers haven’t been hit as hard, and really have started the upward trajectory on this curve. So 40% of the 100,000 or so SBA loans issued to franchisors were, in fact, to food and beverage concepts. Health and beauty and real estate industries both had a below-average charge-off rate at 10% and 12.5% respectively.
All right, a lot of economists have been pointing this curve as the Nike Swoosh where there’s going to be a slower recovery for non-essentials due to people returning to work, getting their paychecks, but focusing more on paying off accumulated debt, and then paying for those services deemed essential in the earlier slides. And it might take people longer to fly again, and even long road trips where you have to stay at a motel or a hotel. So the travel and hospitality industry is already being hit really hard. And it’s going to take, probably, a couple of years if not more, for it to really recover to the pre-COVID-19 levels.
Travel and hospitality, on the franchise side, had one of the highest paid-in-full rates for all loans issued to franchises. For every 10 loans for where data is available, 10…sorry, 9 loans were paid in full for travel and hospitality, largely hotels and motel chains, and one was charged off, basically a default. So you have a default rate of about 10%, but I imagine in this current pandemic, they’re going to get hit pretty hard. And compared to 2008/2009 where residential rules, say, for example, got hit really hard in 2008/2009, being in Miami, the price of an apartment is right about the 2006 level. To just give you some perspective, it hasn’t really recovered, and it’s not like a market like Seattle, San Fran’, Austin, that has really rebounded. But in this crisis, with the pandemic, we’re already seeing travel and hospitality, and then, probably, commercial real estate is going to be hit pretty hard, where the last crisis it was more on the residential side.
And then we have the L-curve, where one of the hardest things in life whether on a business or personal side is changing your habits. It’s really tough to change what you do every day or weekly. So there’s certain industries, particularly retail products and services, and certain fitness centers, where, since February, March, people have started ordering a lot more on Amazon, doing online fitness classes. Whether that’s through the local gym that’s charging significantly less than the live class or through programs like Peloton, people are changing their habits. And, oftentimes, they feel it’s more convenient to do some of these things from the comfort of their house.
So, traditionally, loans issued to retail products and services, and when I say traditionally, over the last 30 years of data, have had one of the highest adjusted charged-off rates. And when I say adjusted, it’s adjusted because there are loans that are approved for issuance but are never actually issued to the borrower for different circumstances. So, traditionally, a charge-off rate is right around 17% for retail products and services. I think that’s going to go up as we look and then as we get the data for 2020 and 2021. So that’s it. I appreciate it. And I guess I’ll turn it back to Ron and George.
Doug: So, a question was with regards to the changes in business that you’re talking about a lot of bricks and mortar. What are you seeing for trends in the e-commerce side? Like you said, retail is down because people aren’t going to stores, but a lot of the stores now, looking at the stats of the UK, 85,000 of them went into the e-comm space.
Patrick: Yeah. Really good question. So it depends on how well they’re able to adapt in their cost model, and, like, what’s their cost of goods sold, and can they compete with other players in the e-commerce space? So we have seen a lot of standalone businesses work more on their e-commerce strategy to various levels of success. So I think it depends on how competitive your product and service is, and how much it is about having the experience of someone coming in to the store. And then, just, overall, I mean, e-commerce, I talked about takeout and delivery, e-commerce, largely, is booming across the board.
Ron: Yeah. Susan, we do not… I think she came in as a panelist invite, somehow. But, Susan, if you’d like to unmute and say anything. I think she just came in with a panelist invite, so… Patrick, remind everyone again, for those that, maybe, missed the beginning, I would be asking, “What is Vetted Biz?” So if you can just tell us a little bit, again, about what you do and, you know, why this information is connected to you and Vetted Biz, I guess.
Patrick: Definitely. Just really quick on our background. So it’s a family-based business. My brother and I own two companies, Visa Franchise which is an advisory business that helps foreign nationals invest primarily in franchises for their visas. Over the last five years, we’ve had over 300 clients invest across the U.S. principally in Florida, Texas, California. And through that, they’ve earned an investor visa. We have a research team here in Miami Beach as well as a lot of remote researchers that go through the data that powers our advisory business.
And last year we decided to separate the businesses for Vetted Biz where it’s a separate entity and powers our advisory practice. But we’re allocating much more resources to Vetted Biz as there’s a much larger market beyond just foreign nationals investing in U.S. businesses. And we were sitting on a lot of data and insight, principally, from the franchisor relationships we’ve nurtured, where, now, we’ve gone through over 2,900 franchise disclosure documents, and we’ve data-mined that information. And we’ve gone through about 1 million small business loans issued both to franchisees and non-franchise businesses to go through and segment the success rate across different industries.
So it’s a platform of existing businesses of all publicly available franchise options, and it has a lot of great data and insights to power the decision process of a prospective business buyer. And we have a lot more informed buyers going through the portals. So it saves the time of business brokers as well as franchisors.
George: And in a couple of weeks we have Patrick coming back. We look forward to having you talk a lot more about the visa program, correct?
Patrick: Definitely. So, yeah.
George: So we’ll share with you all the information about the hows and dos.
Patrick: Just as, like, a little teaser. There’s already over 45,000 investor visas under the category E-2 visa issued every year, but 10% of those are for franchises, and 40% to 50%-plus are for existing businesses. And, generally, in the sub-million-dollar range, average $200,000, $300,000. So we saw during the last crisis, 2008/2009, a lot of foreign capital coming into the real estate market in the U.S. and a lesser extent, U.S. businesses. And we’re starting to see the same thing right now happening for U.S. businesses as well.
Ron: All right. Well, that’s, I think, a week from Tuesday, we’ll dig right into all of that. I’ve got a couple of questions here. This is from an anonymous attendee. Patrick, could you elaborate on your findings and thoughts regarding the automotive industry, it was in the Swoosh category. Any thoughts on that?
Patrick: Yeah. So, automotive, people aren’t driving as much. We have a couple that, of a working couple, maybe, both of them are now working from home, or one is working a couple of days out of the office so people aren’t using their cars as much. As you’ve probably noticed, most major insurance companies have gone ahead and offered a discount ranging 10% to 20% on your automotive insurance. And with that, they’re still making a very nice margin. And, you know, they’re giving a discount, but it should be more to us as a consumer. So that’s part of it, we don’t know the rate of people going back on the roads, and you see it across all different types of metrics when you look at automotive accidents, etc., have gone way down since the COVID-19 pandemic started.
George: Keith is asking us, “So what do you expect the manufacturing industry as companies are reassuring their supply chains?” I guess he is asking what you expect to see in that sector.
Patrick: So manufacturing is probably, of all these industries, the one I’m least well suited to speak about as my experience has been much more on the franchise side and there’s very minimal franchises in the manufacturing space. So for that, I can’t comment as much on the manufacturing, but looking at the macroeconomics and what’s going on with China trade, and talking with a lot of my friends and colleagues who are owners of manufacturing businesses, some of them have been thriving. But part of the issue I’ve seen from talking to different owners of manufacturers is just, the labor laws on a state-by-state level, and you have employees not wanting to go to work because they’ve been making more money by collecting unemployment. So it really depends on a state-by-state level. But, yeah, I’m sorry, I can’t comment as much into the supply-chain side of your question.
Ron: Patrick, you were mentioning ghost kitchens as a trend. How are they set up from like… You know, obviously, there’s places you can, you know, fast food, you can run into Subway, get a sandwich, there’s food trucks, there’s sit-down restaurants. What is that trend, a little bit? And because, you know, obviously restaurants are a huge industry to business brokers and they’re the most impacted. This is pretty interesting to me, so, maybe, can you tell me more about what ghost kitchen is?
Patrick: Yeah, definitely. Going in a little more detail on the ghost kitchen side. So, essentially, what you have is a pretty well-positioned light industrial space where you have a commercial kitchen where you could have up to 10 different entities, essentially, restaurants operating in that space. And they’re paying less rent, and also the terms are generally one to two years, and then you can extend it yearly. So the long-term commitment is substantially less. So where you would have a business, a traditional full-service restaurant with anywhere from 15 to 30 employees, with this model, you could have three or four employees to start. And you can really double down on some of the efforts in terms of the marketing side and analytics to adjust pricing and your product offering rather than just spending a lot of your time hiring, firing, training, etc.
George: Patrick, do you see franchises adopting this model allowing franchisees to run the brand through a ghost kitchen?
Patrick: Yes, I’d say the majority of franchisors are still in the exploration stage. But a lot of the franchisors especially based in California who have been hearing about this concept for some time were the first movers to this. And there’s a few groups that we work with that are opening across major metropolitan areas, and especially in Texas, Illinois, New York, and California. Less so in Florida, they do well where there is very high population density.
George: It seems like a real opportunity for a franchisee to run multiple brands through one operation as well over time, to expand the diversity that they’re offering if the franchisors are willing to do it, yeah.
Patrick: And I think to the extent that you might have a business owner that the lease is coming up and he’s in that situation, does he sign a five-year lease and five-years renew and give another personal guarantee, or does he move the operation to a ghost kitchen, get it stabilized, and then sell the business? So it’s something to be mindful of when you’re talking to your clients, your restaurateur clients, as an opportunity for them.
Edward: Thank you for continuing to do this. So, Patrick, I haven’t done a deep dive into it to find anything different, but part of the naming as ghost kitchen is, they’re, kind of, under the radar. Do they have to register with, like, the health department or how does that work?
Patrick: Yeah, good question. So, definitely have to register with the health department. And there is some expedited… Basically, depending on the state and how it’s run, and even at the county level, that industrial kitchen space has probably already been approved. So in terms of you coming in to start selling products in that ghost kitchen that has already been approved by the local authorities, you might have to or you might not have to also get secondary permits. So that’s definitely in the local area, and there are food consultants I help with that, and then, also, the landlords are very well versed, the owners and operators of these ghost kitchens so they would know that well. And, ghosts, in terms of just, it’s not visible to the consumer, the consumer does not see the kitchen. The consumer is just picking up, but, largely, it’s more takeout.
George: Steve is asking, are franchise loans as a percentage of SBA activity increasing, staying the same, or decreasing?
Ron: It’s still on the ghost kitchen slide.
Patrick: Let’s see, one second. So we haven’t gone through the data over the last, like, month or couple of months per se. We won’t be going through that. But in terms of overall issuances, it has gone up substantially when you look at 2010 to 2019, compared to 2000 and 2009. And then, also, on the…this is the adjusted grand total
Patrick: All right. Zoom in here a little bit. Okay. So what we have here is for franchise businesses, the loan status that SBA gives per different years. So, in 1991 to 1999, you had an adjusted total of 18,000 franchise loans. Why adjusted? Because some people get approved for a loan and never drawdown on a consultant. And in 2010 to 2019, you have seen a significant increase. We haven’t yet gone through the numbers for 2020, that’s what we’re going to do a mid-year report on, I’ll keep you updated on that. And then the franchise business loans, there was a little dip in 2010 to 2019. But you can see that it still dwarfs the franchise space, and the majority of SBA loans are going to existing businesses. And we’ll be producing more and more information on this, but what I thought was interesting is, for non-franchise businesses, you had… Basically, non-franchise and franchise businesses, historically have had pretty similar paid-in-full rates, but over 2010 to 2019, non-franchise businesses have had better paid-in-full rates. So, essentially, you could draw a correlation that those businesses are performing well, better, and are able to pay off their debt servicing.
Ron: All right. Well, yeah, you will keep us informed. I know you will. We’ve talked, and George and I have been getting to know Patrick and the two companies there, and so we’re excited to have this information and keep the industry updated with more of this as we go. Patrick will be coming on a week from Tuesday, and we’ll be doing that Tuesday webinar. Again, we’ve got next Tuesday, Thursday as well. Our new schedule is, kind of, a Tuesday, Thursday, 1:00 p.m., Eastern. We were, kind of, doing the industry update throughout those. Next Tuesday, Jim Parker from Florida will be, I believe if I’m correct, he gave me three ideas, I said, we have to do all three, but at some point. But I think it’s the buyer-seller meetings. And so we’re looking forward to having Jim join us next Tuesday.
Don’t forget that on our website are all those upcoming webinars and all those past recorded webinars. We’ll have this one up with slides by 5:00 today. Don’t forget that Steve Denny and Terry Lammers are running their update at 3:00 o’clock Eastern today. You can register on our website, businessbrokeragepress.com. And we’ve just updated that website with a good search and filtering of past webinars. We still get a ton of questions every day about, if I can send them a link to a past webinar, and I keep sending out the same link to our archives. So it’s there, they’re all there. There’s about 100 stored there that’s industry webinars, podcasts, other educational videos, so a growing library there. Thanks, everyone for joining us. Patrick, thanks for your time today.
Patrick: So, yeah, traditionally we’ve been in the franchise space. We’re starting to cater our services much more to business brokers. As you can clearly see, it’s 9, 10 times bigger than the franchise space so a lot larger opportunity for us. And for this month, we’re still running a promotion where business brokers can have up to five listings for a period of six months for free. So we’ll be running those listings through the social media and already have on Vetted Biz and Visa Franchise with over 20,000 Facebook and LinkedIn followers. And then, some of our mailings that have about 30,000 people registered, the majority of which are prospective business buyers. So we’re really looking to receive feedback and prove ourselves as a little trial before moving onto a monthly subscription service. So if you’re interested, reach out before the end of the month, and it’d be great to work together.
Ron: Yeah, thanks for that. You know, in the industry, if you didn’t catch that, kind of, we put this in the category of a business for sale site, but with a very unique approach to it, with a unique approach to the marketing, with the international buyers, and their different lists, and the data that they’re collecting. So it’s easy to, kind of, put everybody in the same bucket but there are some things that really distinguish you from the existing model. And so I know people are thinking, “Is this a business for sale site?” And the answer would be, “Yes, but, kind of, with a twist.” Would that be a fair assessment?
Patrick: Yeah. No, well said. Definitely less leads. We’ll never be the biggest provider and biggest volume leads, but we’d like to have and we’re already proving ourselves as the best leads. One of the first business transaction that happened, a coffee shop in Los Angeles, a business broker and the business owner had been trying to sell it for a year. We even put it in one of our mailings, they received 11 contacts, right now it’s going into negotiations. It’s being finalized and it’s about to be inked. So we’re looking to bring less leads but better-quality leads, better-informed leads that have done their research.
George: Is that an international buyer that you’re connecting him with?
Patrick: That was an international buyer, yeah.
George: Right. I was going to say, that’s one of the differentiators too, is you’re potentially tapping to an audience that nobody else caters to right now.
Patrick: Exactly. And they have cash, and a lot of our clients are seeking a U.S. visa, and they want to move soon so you have an urgency driver, which anyone that does sales, you know, it’s a great thing to have.
Ron: Well, we were, kind of, ending up, wrapping up a little bit. But, Laura, I saw your hand go up. If you want to unmute yourself and ask your question or comment, that might’ve been not intentional, but I thought I would, at least, try there. I don’t think she is available, but… All right, well, we’ll go ahead and wrap up. Well, we’ll be hearing more from Patrick and the services that he provides. I think that’s just really relevant data as we think about who to prospect to, how to educate the business owners. To be aware of this type of data is part of what we do in this industry, and so, you know, it’s important. And as people are thinking about, you know, who to go after, what prospects, what’s their curve look like, we’ll keep that updated with Patrick. And I think that’s really one of the big questions that people ask me is, you know, who should I be targeting, where are they at? So, thank you very much for that. And we’ll see you soon.